Curse

Bill Clinton · Jun 24, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Okay so i've been working on a little build not disimiliar to the one I just found ten minutes ago on PvX:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Me/N_Frag_Spiker

The idea was to make a mesmer that can spread out masses of powerfull conditions to multiple enemies quickly, designed to work with Discordway. So heres what i've got so far.
Illusion 12
Fast Casting 10
Earth Magic 8
[Fevered Dreams][Fragility][Ash Blast]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"]["Finish Him!"]

I cast across the bar and while Ash Blast casts, click the shouts. It applies 5 powerfull conditions: Blind, Daze, Cripple, Cracked armour and Deep wound in 3 seconds on everyone in the vicinity. It also meets the requirments for Discord and the necros spike at the same time.

On master of damage I found I was getting 700 damage over 7 seconds but with a spike of 400-500 damage in the third second. The nice thing is how fast the recharge on the skills is, so I could just cast back through the bar almost right away.

Three more degenerative conditions come into the mix; poison, bleeding and weakness from the necros - so thats 8 easily applied, quickly renewed conditions spreading around. Pretty fun, but there are some problems.

First, I only have enough energy to cast twice before waiting to regen. I have three skill slots left, but dont want to spec into inspiration too much because i'm already spread thin.
Second, I have eight points in earth magic, that seems a decent number for the duration of the blind, but is specing 8 into earth for one skill worth it? Even despite the maintainable AoE blind?
And Third, I can use ''Finish Him!'' Instantly versus the master of damage because the previous skills lower his health below 50%, however - in hard mode this is not so likely and i'll loose my spike capacity. Is it worth it? Or is it just down to optimising my targets and smarter playing.

So do you guys have any suggestions for my last three skills? I still have space for another PvE skill, too. Perhaps some attribute re-adjusting would be best?

Questions/Comments appreciated.

zelgadissan · Jun 25, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Chthon (and I think maybe Tyla) has already posted something to this nature here - a link to Chthon's can be found here, and he even titled it "Mandragor in a Can".

If you cba to click the link:
Extend Conditions
You Move Like a Dwarf!
Ash Blast
Cry of Pain
Phantom Pain
Shrinking Armor
Drain Delusions
Technobabble

If you're specifically looking for a Fragility spike, I would consider removing Cry of Pain for Finish Him!, then since DW and Cracked are now covered you can pitch either Phantom or Shrinking for your Fragility. He did specifically mention that Finish Him! usually kills too fast though.

Bill Clinton · Jun 25, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Chthon (and I think maybe Tyla) has already posted something to this nature here - a link to Chthon's can be found here, and he even titled it "Mandragor in a Can".

If you cba to click the link:
Extend Conditions
You Move Like a Dwarf!
Ash Blast
Cry of Pain
Phantom Pain
Shrinking Armor
Drain Delusions
Technobabble

If you're specifically looking for a Fragility spike, I would consider removing Cry of Pain for Finish Him!, then since DW and Cracked are now covered you can pitch either Phantom or Shrinking for your Fragility. He did specifically mention that Finish Him! usually kills too fast though.

Thanks for that! You know, reading that thread I seem to vaguely recall having read it a long time before. Perhaps thats why 'mandragor in a can' sprang into my head...

Looking at the build, though, my biggest peeve with it is using extend conditions rather than fevered dreams, and its not just because its not as widely AoE. The biggest reason put foward for Extend over Fevered is that Extend conditions is so spammable, but looking at the date - isnt that from a time where fevered had 20second recharge? Now it is only 8, three more seconds than Extend.

I think I prefer fevered because I can still use Finish him with it, which kills very fast, like he said, but still spreads the deep wound/cracked armour while it does so, condensing my bar and giving a better damage output. Also theres the bigger range, and the fact that the daze will trigger fragility for more damage in the spike. (All five conditions strike at the exact same time).

Using ''drain delusions'' has given me an idea, though. What about ethereal/kitahs burden and drain delusions?
I can cast through the bar twice without before suffering energy problems. Then just switch to a high energy set, cast Ethereal/Kitahs burden followed by drain delusions for a net gain of +31 energy, switch back to a low set and spike more.
The burden spells have a recharge of thirty, but by the time I am out of energy again, they should have recharged.

Chthon · Jun 25, 2009, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

Looking at the build, though, my biggest peeve with it is using extend conditions rather than fevered dreams, and its not just because its not as widely AoE. The biggest reason put foward for Extend over Fevered is that Extend conditions is so spammable, but looking at the date - isnt that from a time where fevered had 20second recharge? Now it is only 8, three more seconds than Extend.

Yes, that build was created when EC was first buffed. (In fact, there were 3 earlier versions of the build before EC was buffed that used FD.) The subsequent buffs to Fevered Dreams and Fragility both make Fevered Dreams a much stronger option now. Regarding EC's strengths over FD, while spammability is one, it has two more significant strengths: 1. The combo is foolproof; you can start up anywhere in the chain, on any monster, at any time, and make it work; and 2. With a decent base duration, you can get infinite duration on most conditions with just one application. For right now, here's what I see as the bottom line: If you're purely interested in locking down the monsters, EC is still superior; but if you're interested in passable shutdown paired with the potential for fragility spikes, FD is the way to go.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 25, 2009, 06:41 AM // 06:41

I wonder if this kind of fevered dream/ extend condition mesmer build would be a great addition to the arkfenway build. Having an aoe deepwound and other conditions along with the hex on the discord target would seem to work good for the build.

Bill Clinton · Jun 25, 2009, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Yes, that build was created when EC was first buffed. (In fact, there were 3 earlier versions of the build before EC was buffed that used FD.) The subsequent buffs to Fevered Dreams and Fragility both make Fevered Dreams a much stronger option now. Regarding EC's strengths over FD, while spammability is one, it has two more significant strengths: 1. The combo is foolproof; you can start up anywhere in the chain, on any monster, at any time, and make it work; and 2. With a decent base duration, you can get infinite duration on most conditions with just one application. For right now, here's what I see as the bottom line: If you're purely interested in locking down the monsters, EC is still superior; but if you're interested in passable shutdown paired with the potential for fragility spikes, FD is the way to go.

Thats a nice assessment, its kinda nice to see two powerful mesmer elites that when compared side by side weigh up pretty evenly. Balance ftw. I think i'm going to try fevered for now, though energy is still pretty tight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I wonder if this kind of fevered dream/ extend condition mesmer build would be a great addition to the arkfenway build. Having an aoe deepwound and other conditions along with the hex on the discord target would seem to work good for the build.

Well... yeah, I mean it would work good with any build - its rather effective shut down. And cautury signet, matyr and so on just provide a second spike to all the targets who have fragility on them! The reason I like it with a pure discord team more, though, is that when you call fevered dreams one of the necros casts enfeebling blood - then just as you're clicking your shouts they spam discord at the exact same time, all on the third second. Not only should the target be dead, but now everyone else is running around dying, blind, crippled etc etc
Arkfenway only has two discords, so that intial spike impact is obviously a little less, but yeah it should work just great anyway.

I have decided my last three skills are devoted to energy: Ethereal, drain delusions, Kitah's.
It looks pretty poor on paper, but in practicality it works pretty well, and at the moment I can find any other alternatives.

Life Bringing · Jun 25, 2009, 08:15 AM // 08:15

I'd try to get GoLE in there tbh.

Bill Clinton · Jun 25, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

I'd try to get GoLE in there tbh.

OH god i'm such a dumbass how could I forget GoLE? I'm trying it now at isle of the nameless.

Eh... Kind of works, but its no better than using a second burden skill, infact I think it may even be a little bit worse. The problem for these skills is recharge, they're all at 30 or something stupid like that.